Curse

lursey · Jul 30, 2011, 11:48 PM // 23:48

as everyone in gw pvp knows that, the only effective countering to an interruption is by skill canceling, interruption in itself is overpowered with ping issues which affect the fairness of pvp

the art of skill cancelling is important and it creates dynamics play versus interruption, but the problem now if too much skill cancelling will deplete your mana, causing this dynamics being obstructed and not utilized enough for drawing the ping issue fairness closer..

so the question is raised here that, what is the rationale behind of player abusing skill cancelling if it doesn't incur the cost of mana?

I find there is not.....and

I think too much cancelling will already render the player useless if they keep on standing and cancelling skills, even without the need to use mana depletion..

Pew · Jul 31, 2011, 12:15 AM // 00:15

If a skill is so important that it needs to get off without being interrupted, it's important enough to be cancelled to burn interrupts.

Think of it as an extra skill you're using that disables the opposing interrupt for a small amount of time.

There's also more ways to help avoid interrupts than just cancelling.

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pew

If a skill is so important that it needs to get off without being interrupted, it's important enough to be cancelled to burn interrupts.

Think of it as an extra skill you're using that disables the opposing interrupt for a small amount of time.

There's also more ways to help avoid interrupts than just cancelling.

I think the cost of activation time is already enough for cancelling..
you do not need a double cost....

say for example a monk.. if he has to cast a spell, he needs to cast it on time...and if he keeps on cancelling...he is actually effectively wasting the potential mana that he can used from mana recharge..

time is mana...even so.. if you cancel 2 times a 10 mana skill, and the third time, the mesmer, use 1 leech signet or a 5 mana interrupt..exchanged for 30 manas + all the times you are standing and cancelling from you.. I feel this is how it gets over-powered..

player button mashing skill-wise.. there is no other ways to avoid interruption from mesmer..

HigherMinion · Jul 31, 2011, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Easy counter to rupting is bring a 5e, slow cast spell and spam Cancel or a Signet so it costs nothing. But, if you can keep canceling WoH or w/e for free... That's just OP and unfair to mesmers/rangers (and monks with dshot!)

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Easy counter to rupting is bring a 5e, slow cast spell and spam Cancel or a Signet so it costs nothing. But, if you can keep canceling WoH or w/e for free... That's just OP and unfair to mesmers/rangers (and monks with dshot!)

it is not unfair to mesmer/ranger.. because they effectively expensed your activation time in the competition..making you can't cast a spell on time, if you keep cancelling...and any moment you will still need to cast the spell at one point if you want to remain competitive..

drkn · Jul 31, 2011, 03:03 AM // 03:03

As a mesmer, i actually support this idea. But only as an idea.
It'd require to recode the whole skill activation process, which, as i imagine, wouldn't be that easy even with a bigger live team.

Zodiac Meteor · Jul 31, 2011, 04:42 AM // 04:42

I have never seen this a problem.
First off, don't cancel a skill that takes 10 energy, that's just dumb. Typically ANY skill will suffice to drawing interrupts not just the one you want to cast. Wasting 30 energy to draw interrupts is just... next.

Secondly, be smart when drawing interrupts and timing won't be a problem. For example, when your team is dying and you need to heal, that is the time you DON'T draw interrupts.
"I'm dazed."
"Sorry, drawing interrupts."
"wtf"

Lastly, not sure what mana is, because Guild Wars uses energy for it's form of... energy.

There is really nothing wrong with the system, any good player can utilize it to their advantage.

*lemming* · Jul 31, 2011, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

I have never seen this a problem.
First off, don't cancel a skill that takes 10 energy, that's just dumb. Typically ANY skill will suffice to drawing interrupts not just the one you want to cast. Wasting 30 energy to draw interrupts is just... next.

Secondly, be smart when drawing interrupts and timing won't be a problem. For example, when your team is dying and you need to heal, that is the time you DON'T draw interrupts.
"I'm dazed."
"Sorry, drawing interrupts."
"wtf"

Lastly, not sure what mana is, because Guild Wars uses energy for it's form of... energy.

There is really nothing wrong with the system, any good player can utilize it to their advantage.

sometimes i feel like you don't pvp

Also, the solution to interrupts being too strong shouldn't be to make the counter to interrupts stronger, but to make being interrupted less of a big deal.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 31, 2011, 05:14 AM // 05:14

What will be funny is when the interrupt bots start to get faked out by canceling bots.

Running yourself out of mana is one of the parts of the current system that demands skill. You need to moderate your behavior so that you can draw interrupts without canceling too much, and thus not lose as much energy. Players who have a better sense of when to cancel will be able to use key skills when they need to more often.

Zodiac Meteor · Jul 31, 2011, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Also, the solution to interrupts being too strong shouldn't be to make the counter to interrupts stronger, but to make being interrupted less of a big deal.

No, the solution to interrupts is simply requiring skill. No need to make anything weaker or stronger, or any sort of adjustments to it's gameplay. Just be smart on how you play and it won't be such a problem to you.

This is basically the gist of PvP.
Just because your spamming attacks while hexed with Insidious Parasite doesn't make Insidious Parasite overpowered.
Just because your getting interrupted a lot, and canceling skills is getting to costly doesn't make interrupts overpowered.

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

As a mesmer, i actually support this idea. But only as an idea.
It'd require to recode the whole skill activation process, which, as i imagine, wouldn't be that easy even with a bigger live team.

I don't know much about recoding.. but can it be something like

if pressed esc, skill canceled, and return skill en cost, else drain the en...

they can do it with skill recharge, I think en wouldn't be a problem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maya Cerestiez

Mana?

12chars

energy....but you get the idea...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

I have never seen this a problem.
First off, don't cancel a skill that takes 10 energy, that's just dumb. Typically ANY skill will suffice to drawing interrupts not just the one you want to cast. Wasting 30 energy to draw interrupts is just... next.

Secondly, be smart when drawing interrupts and timing won't be a problem. For example, when your team is dying and you need to heal, that is the time you DON'T draw interrupts.
"I'm dazed."
"Sorry, drawing interrupts."
"wtf"

Lastly, not sure what mana is, because Guild Wars uses energy for it's form of... energy.

There is really nothing wrong with the system, any good player can utilize it to their advantage.

even daze, sometimes you have to cast too if the situation is necessary, but when you got daze, and you can cast cancel it without suffering en problem, it can promote more situation play..and, it is not just daze, the main is mesmer

leech signet, power drain, power leak, pd, pb, signet of distraction, the interruption skills...

more so....if you cancel a skill, you don't want the skill to be on recharging... say .. word of healing...guardian...or even some necro, ele, caster skills..you want to expense mesmer's interruption skill...but you cannot cancel too many times, because you will be out of en, if you are doing so..

say if 5 en, word of healing, you cast cancel one time, 5 en, then second time, another 5 en.... mesmer use a signet of distraction on the 3rd time, you totally lost, 15 en +the time standing cancelling+the skill is on recharge.. and mesmer used only 0 en...... if a mesmer want to kill your mana.. the mesmer has other mana drain skills... isn't interruption should be something only affect casting time?

and I am not sure what is draw interruption you meaning...if the mesmer is on you... he is on you...you don't draw that interruption to you..

I always find that a problem, especially when vs mesmer's pd, as pd's recharge is so slow...and when in a situation where you need to bring 10 en skills such as in codex (fixed skill) or or ha (maybe heal party, party skills)....

if you tell other.. because the skills is 10en don't bring it..then is just killing the diversity of skills.....reducing competitiveness...and leading to mesmer interruption overpowering...

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

What will be funny is when the interrupt bots start to get faked out by canceling bots.

Running yourself out of mana is one of the parts of the current system that demands skill. You need to moderate your behavior so that you can draw interrupts without canceling too much, and thus not lose as much energy. Players who have a better sense of when to cancel will be able to use key skills when they need to more often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

No, the solution to interrupts is simply requiring skill. No need to make anything weaker or stronger, or any sort of adjustments to it's gameplay. Just be smart on how you play and it won't be such a problem to you.

This is basically the gist of PvP.
Just because your spamming attacks while hexed with Insidious Parasite doesn't make Insidious Parasite overpowered.
Just because your getting interrupted a lot, and canceling skills is getting to costly doesn't make interrupts overpowered.

there is no option sometimes, other than skill cancelling to expense the mesmer interruption or mesmer's mana.. like PD vs. yours skill bar...when you have to cast a heal for example...

the mesmer only needs to bring an interruption skill, and can lol at you cancelling skills...even if he doesn't interrupt.. and that makes any skill en cost increase through cancelling...because of that interruption skill...

and you say.. yea.. so don't cast cancel, bring other skills.. then.. meaning.. interruption is overpowered..

Zodiac Meteor · Jul 31, 2011, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Let me rephrase my previous post statement,
Player 1: "I'm dazed"
Player 2: "Sorry, I'm drawing rupts."
Player 1: "wtf"

I'm talking about pacing your cancels, think and guess when your opponent is going to interrupt you rather than straight out drawing interrupts. Just because you failed to fake out an interrupt, doesn't mean you have to do it a second or third time.

Doing that, energy won't be much of a problem.

You would be amazed how often canceling a skill that didn't draw, but less than a second later, using a fast cast skill like Patient Spirit really throws most people off.

I used to hate diversion and shame with a passion, along with other pesky shutdown skills, once I got used to being more aware of my opponents than my own character, the threat of shutdown skills became, well, less threatening. Same goes with interrupts.

Once you PvP more than you already do, timing, pace and awareness feels much more natural. That doesn't mean you can't get interrupted, it just means you know 'if' you can be interrupted and you just work with and around that.

The last thing you want to do is lesson the threat of interrupts, if you do that, then everyone will be bringing shutdown skills instead.

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Let me rephrase my previous post statement,
Player 1: "I'm dazed"
Player 2: "Sorry, I'm drawing rupts."
Player 1: "wtf"

I'm talking about pacing your cancels, think and guess when your opponent is going to interrupt you rather than straight out drawing interrupts. Just because you failed to fake out an interrupt, doesn't mean you have to do it a second or third time.

Doing that, energy won't be much of a problem.

You would be amazed how often canceling a skill that didn't draw, but less than a second later, using a fast cast skill like Patient Spirit really throws most people off.

I used to hate diversion and shame with a passion, along with other pesky shutdown skills, once I got used to being more aware of my opponents than my own character, the threat of shutdown skills became, well, less threatening. Same goes with interrupts.

Once you PvP more than you already do, timing, pace and awareness feels much more natural. That doesn't mean you can't get interrupted, it just means you know 'if' you can be interrupted and you just work with and around that.

The last thing you want to do is lesson the threat of interrupts, if you do that, then everyone will be bringing shutdown skills instead.

I am not scared of being interrupted..is just interruption is doing more than it is supposed to do....

shame and diversion, is less scary than interruption... as you can cast through shame with lower energy set.. to cancel the shame....it doesn't affect the skills recharge, but interruption affects both skill recharge, and mana...

more scary is echo diversion, when you don't have anti hex.. you can just stand there..

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

sometimes i feel like you don't pvp

Also, the solution to interrupts being too strong shouldn't be to make the counter to interrupts stronger, but to make being interrupted less of a big deal.

how can you make being interrupted less of a big deal.. when there are so many different kinds of interruption and their unique usage...

*lemming* · Jul 31, 2011, 06:25 AM // 06:25

There's two separate trends that have led to the drastically increased importance of interrupts in the past couple of years. One is the buffing of interrupt skills. The other one is individual skills (monk elites in particular) being stronger.

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

There's two separate trends that have led to the drastically increased importance of interrupts in the past couple of years. One is the buffing of interrupt skills. The other one is individual skills (monk elites in particular) being stronger.

I think this is bad.. and not an universal cure like cast cancel which can promote skill play... because once if the opponent doesn't have a mesmer, then the monks skill becomes over powered..same as other way round.

*lemming* · Jul 31, 2011, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Compare dom mesmer bars and playstyles from 2007 to those of today.

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Compare dom mesmer bars and playstyles from 2007 to those of today.

I cannot remember, and they didn't have codex arena at that time......

but I still don't understand why an interruption does eat the opponent en and skill recharge..

and the skill canceler expenses his en, when he cast cancel..double costing favoring to the interrupter.

I think favoring to the skill canceler is better, because it improve skillful play for all class..players don't c space button-mashing anymore when skill canceling is more viable

is like in the MTG....

the situation of casting a spell through tapping mana.. but if you have a second thought that may you get interrupted, the mana is in the mana pool not being used, and when you are cancelling the thought of casting the spell...you will have mana burn from it causing you to lose life if you don't use the left over in the mana pool, but most importantly you still have the mana you can use..

Coast · Jul 31, 2011, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Whenever you cancel a skill, u gain 50% back of the cost.
1e=1e/5e=3e/10e=5e/15e=8e/25e=13e

lursey · Jul 31, 2011, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Whenever you cancel a skill, u gain 50% back of the cost.
1e=1e/5e=3e/10e=5e/15e=8e/25e=13e

compromised..........but I still prefer more towards skill cancel than pro interrupt

ruk1a · Jul 31, 2011, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

Whenever you cancel a skill, u gain 50% back of the cost.
1e=1e/5e=3e/10e=5e/15e=8e/25e=13e

I like, but TBH I'd prefer it stay as is. Don't make this shit like WoW where healers can fake cast you all damn day using zero resources while you waste your one interrupt and they get to freecast for 10 seconds. I don't know.. since monks are really the only competitive healers I'd be down to give this to them as a passive like in healing prayers or something. But really, I think fake casting would just be way too easy with 50% refund.